b-independent interviews: JOEL WYNKOOP

Joel Wynkoop
Joel Wynkoop is a Florida-based actor/director with roughly 3 decades of no-budget moviemaking under his belt. He's best known for his collaborations with microcinema pioneer Tim Ritter: TRUTH OR DARE, KILLING SPREE, and the brilliant DIRTY COP, NO DONUT. Wynkoop is also an avid martial artist whose talents are on display in his feature-length directorial effort LOST FAITH. This is part 2 of our two part interview, be sure to read part one here.

B-Independent: DIRTY COP, NO DONUT. Gus Kimble, aka Officer Friendly. How did you and Ritter create this character?
Joel Wynkoop: Tim called me one night and told me we we're going to do a movie called LOW DOWN DIRTY COP. He said we we're going to shoot it like COPS! I said "Okay, sounds cool to me."
First thing I had to do was put together a police man uniform, I think I used my old security uniform from way back when I worked for SECUREX, when I lived in Pensacola. I put together a utility belt from thrift and military store [items]. The badge was...mine from SECUREX. The gun I got from one of my nephews, I think.
The first shoot was at [actor] Rich Hoopes, he was to play a "dealer" and I was to interogate him. I'm walking down the hallway and Tim tells me "Your not looking at the camera."
I said I know, you never look at the camera. and he said "No, it's supposed to be like COPS, you can look at the camera."
"Oh," I said, "I get it!" Then it was just up to me to create Gus Kimble, same thing as Angus. I just created what Gus would be like. Gus was another one that was swearing all the time. It wasn't me swearing, it was Gus Kimble. I remember a review...where someone once said "Wynkoop has a foul mouth and needs to learn how to talk and not be so foul-mouthed."
"Dude," I thought, "I'm playing a character, I don't walk around in my real life going 'what the fuck was that.'" I was just playing a role." Tim pretty much just let me create as I went along, which again is "GREAT" when the director will [give you that freedom].
B: How much of the movie was improvisational?
JW: We had an idea written down for each turn of events. Tim would give me the general idea of what I should cover and say, and then he would cut me lose.
The car scene was my favorite. Tim just told me "Destroy this car man; go berserk." So that's what I did. I wanted to throw a karate kick through the window, but Tim was afraid I'd get cut, so we just used the baseball bat instead. I felt like I was having a heart attack by the end of that scene. That was a long take; I went balistic on that car...and [Ritter's wife] Kathy. I asked Tim, "I don't want to hurt her, how do you want me to handle this."
He said to "treat her like any other actress doing the scene." So I did.
The next day Tim told me, "Man, you gotta take it easy, Kathy is all bruised from where you were grabbing her."
"I'm sorry man," I replied. "That's why I asked you how you wanted me to handle it."
She was okay; it was just my grip was to tight on her. Again I became the character.
The store was the first thing we shot. We went in and told the guy what we wanted to do and we bought the food and drinks and then prepared to shoot the scene. What I did in the store was just me doing whatever I wanted and Tim following me with the camera.
Bill Cassinelli's scene was outrageous! It was written that Gus would visit a pedophile and make him castrate himself. [With] each scene I had the general idea but then Tim would let me take it from there. Tim didn't have any idea what I was going to do, thats why you can hear him laughing in alot of the scenes. I was cracking him up.
How about this classic line, "You're JAMACIAN me crazy". That always gets a laugh.
B: What you and Ritter did with this movie is a sort of performance art, not to dissimilar from films like SIX DAYS IN ROSWELL, or the recent BORAT, where you have this fictional character that you unleash on society. How many people from the various segments were actually in on the joke?
JW: Mostly, all of them had to know what we we're doing, or it wouldn't work. We'd have been arrested.
We did go in a bar without telling anyone what we we're doing. You have to remember there's a camera following me around and people were like "What are they doing?"
In DIRTY COP 2, I stood in the road and was directing traffic, and people were actually obeying me thinking I was a real cop. I was dressed in Brown and that was the color of the cops' uniforms in Fort Pierce, where we shot the movie.
Now, the customers in the store didn't know what was going on but they really didn't care, they just came in got their stuff and left.
When we were shooting the pawn shop scene, after I had thrown the TV on the floor, some guy walked in right in the middle of my tiraid and said "Whats going on here?" I think we shot that twice, it had to be all one continious shot, no cuts.
B: Your role was reduced in the sequel where you and director Donald Farmer shared screentime via parrallel stories. At this point, you and Ritter weren't living in the same state. Was it hard working with a director when he was 500 miles away?
JW: I'd rather have Tim directing me in anything I do, but he wrote what he wanted me to shoot in Fort Pierce, and I added a few of myown ideas (like the release from jail where Kimbal was since the first movie, remember he was busted at the end of part one). I called up Bill Cassinelli and asked him if he'd like to be the camera man and we took it from there.
I like Donald Farmer a lot. I never met him, but I like him in the movie.. Crossing the two over, I don't think was as effective as Tim wanted. Like my second wife said when she saw the footage, "you got one guy trying to be Clint Eastwood and one guy trying to be Joel D. Wynkoop." I told Tim what we we're shooting and kept him posted everytime Bill and I would shoot.
Tim's biggest gripe was "there's no pay off. You don't do anything to anybody you run into." He was right, there was no pay off like the hooker or the pedophile or the party kids or the wife abuser [from the first movie], but I think I was going more for the comedy.
DIRTY COP 2: SPECIAL EDITION was funny on it's own. I remember Tim saying our distributer Ron would crack up when Gus kept telling the story of his father and how he was killed - it was always by some other offender. One time it was a man and wife, then the next time he told [the story] it was "Five big old Japs." "Mexicans killed my daddy." And so on.
My favorite scene was when Bill and I we're sitting in the car. We were supposed to be taking a break and Bill, affectionatley known as Cameraboy, says, "man, I can't believe that one guy got you."
"Yeah, if you weren't so busy with that camera, you're supposed to drop that thing and help me."
"That's not my job."
Then I tell him, "Would you just shut up! If you say one more word I'm gonna kick the shit out of you!"
"I'm just trying to make conversation."
And then I go after him and he runs, and when he turns around I'm coming after him with chips flying out of the can I'm carrying and then I beat him down on the ground. I'm smashing down with my baton straight into the camera lens. That should have been a big, big hit...
We did a scene in another conveince store and I still think the prattle between myself and the clerk is hillarious. After hassleing the clerk about girlie books, and drinking and eating things [off the shelf] in his store, I try to rob him and he ends up shooting at us instead. Like Rodney once said "I get no respect" That's what it should have been called "DIRTY COP 2 SPECIAL EDITION: I GET NO RESPECT"
B: Is this the same Dirty Cop that you play in Richard Anasky's upcoming I AM VENGANCE?
JW: Yes! I talked to Richy recently and he said that it may not come out for alonggggg time. However, he said he's working on something else that may have some of those scenes in the movie.
It was alot of fun doing I AM VENGEANCE. Rich is a pretty cool guy. I also shot some scenes with him that, after time, became his movie ACTRESS APOCALYPSE. What we did as a short became the predecessor for his full feature. I think I am in the extras doing the original. Check it out, it's on Amazon.com.
I also did some Dirty Cop-type sceneraios with other actors that were there at his house. Rich has that footage, it would be cool to see after all these years. Rich was a true host, he pulled out all the magazines I was in and asked if I would sign them all. He and his wife also put on a nice spread of "EATS".
Gus, in I AM VENGEANCE, is a little more pyschotic then he was in DIRTY COP however. This DIRTY COP was still Gus, but he got even more whacked out in the head. My excuse for his bizzare behavior was that he was "brainwashed" by another character in the movie. This Dirty Cop was doing the bidding of a madman and ripping people's throats out with his teeth. I was covered in blood by the end of the shoot; I felt like I was back on the set of KILLING SPREE. It may be a long wait, but I'll be anxious to see I AM VENGEANCE.
B: How did FX man Marcus Koch convince you to take the role of Dr. Robert Olsen in the necrophelia vomitorium ROT?
JW: Marcus called Tim shortly after CREEP was released and asked Tim if he knew how to get a hold of me. Tim told him "yes," and gave Marcus my number after okaying it with me.
I think Lisa, a friend of Marcus' working on the script, called me first and made initial contact. When I finally spoke to Marcus he asked if I would be interested in doing a movie called ROT? I asked him what it was about and he told me. I thought it sounded kind of cool and he told me he really wanted me to play the deranged Doctor. I told him to send me a script, but he only had half, so he sent me that. I read it and liked the half I'd seen, and committed to the movie.
It was alot of fun doing it. Alot of stuff behind the scenes too that were wild. Marcus is a cool guy and I would work for him again in a minute. Infact, I was supposed to star in his new feature 100 TEARS, but I couldn't give him the commitment he wanted. He needed 14 days straight and I told him I couldn't do that at this time. Also, a part of me didn't want to do another CREEP movie. Basically, it was a killer raping and killing people, but in clown makeup. That's CREEP, except for the clown make up. Still, Marcus is a pretty cool guy.
B: What was the experience like on that movie? I remember seeing some behind the scenes footage years ago that looked like you were having a blast.
JW: It was alot of fun, and some of it wasn't alot of fun. When we we were shooting it was great, but the behind the scenes stuff was kind of annoying. One night while we were between takes, one of the actresses stabbed herself in the arm with a needle, drew her own blood out, and said, "look, here's blood from my body." I told myself right then if she starts spraying it around the room I'm outta here.
One night, some big dude came in and started bashing his girlfriend into the wall and just when I thought "I gotta save her," he stopped. She was laughing. I guess they were both getting off on it. The dude was huge, too. The girl was okay with it so I stayed out of it.
Another night, the cops showed up and I told Marcus that "I have experience with talking to cops on movie sets. Do you want me to talk to them?"
He said "yeah, you can talk to them."
I told them "I'm an actor over from the East coast working on this guy's movie..."
"Well, you have to have permits to shoot a movie here..." he said.
I answered "Officer, I'm just trying to help these kids out, at least there doing something constructive with their lives. They're not out doing drugs or breaking into peoples houses; they're just making a movie."
Meanwhile, the k-9 in the back is going nuts. "Alright, go ahead and finish up," the officer says.
We did, but Marcus didn't like the outcome so we went back the next night and did it again without police interference.
We did go into St. Pete, I think, where all these race riots were fought just a week before and Marcus didn't tell me till we were done shooting the scenes there.
The fight scene was awesom;, it was me against all the punks. One review I had said "It's fun to see Wynkoop take on the entire punk generation." I had to explain to Marcus what a "KIA" is. He would ask "do you have to make that screaming noise every time you fight someone?" I told him most karate guys do, it called a "KIA", it's your power. If they had them in that day and age he probably would have asked "what's a car got to do with it?" Just kidding Marcus, you know your ok in my book.
B: Will we ever see SCARY TALES' Mr. Longfellow again?
JW: I really doubt it. I haven't heard form [director] Mike Hoffman in years. He always said he was going to do a third, but he's never attempted to get a hold of me. It was a fun character to play but I think that's one of my creations that will never be seen again.
B: After the SCARY TALES videos, you've streatched your career with a series of long distance cameos, such as Joe the Butcher in SERIAL KILLER. How do these work?
JW: Moviemakers will contact me by phone, or internet, or however they can, and ask me to do scenes for them for their movies. If I like the part, I will do it. Sometimes they fly me there or I'll shoot them here in town and send them the footage. Such was the case with SERIAL KILLER.
This was about the time I was doing SCARY TALES 2: THE RETURN OF MR. LONGFELLOW. Everything was going good on SCARY TALES when I showed up one mornig at the car lot where we were shooting and no one was there. I tried Mike's numbers but I could not get in touch with him. I got a hold of [actor/producer] Jason Daly and he said he thought the shot had been called off. No one told me. Afterwards, Mike told me that at around 4 that morning he had left a message on my voicebox. Then he just dissappeared for a time and I didn't know if we were going to finish the movie or not; I couldn't get in touch with him he didn't call me and in the meanwhile Ryan Cavalline contacted me to do a scene in his movie SERIAL KILLER.
I had a commitment to Mike but I wasn't getting any info on SCARY TALES. Mike hadn't called me, and I couldn't reach him, so I told Ryan "I'll do it."
"SERIAL KILLER," I thought,"hmmmm.... in jail, shaved head, I'll do that." I cut it pretty close like a buzz cut to play the part.
Shortly after this Mike calls me out of the blue and says "We're ready to finish SCARY TALES. I told him "I shaved my head Mike, I didn't know what was going on." I told him I took the role in SERIAL KILLER because I hadn't heard from him and I wasn't going to keep waiting for something I didn't know may or may not happen.
That's how the whole thing started when I saw his interview where he said, "in the middle of it all, my lead actor, Joel Wynkoop, shaved his head.." Yeah, because I showed up on a set where we were supposed to be shooting and no one was there. Then it was nothing for months to what was going on. I heard later it was personal problems that Mike was going through, which I understood, but [he should have]let me know right away and not months later.
Anyway, I did SERIAL KILLER. It was funny, Ryan had sent me a script and I told him I didn't want to do it because of content, so he rewrote it. I told him the same. Ryan told me to come up with something along the lines of what he sent... so I did. Ryan said "that's more twisted then what I wrote for you."
I also had done something for Ryan and Phil Herman in the past called TALES FOR THE MIDNIGHT HOUR. This was shot in Brandon by Cathy, Garland Hewlitt and myself.
I reprised the role of Dr. Dan Hess in Ryan's EVIL TALES THREE, DAY OF THE AX, and another that I can't remember. Also, as mentioned earlier, I did Dan Hess for Kevin Lindenmuth in ADDICTED TO MURDER 2: TAINTED BLOOD.
I even did something for David "THE ROCK" Nelson for his movie DEMON MONSTER FROM OUTER SPACE.
Alot of these I'll do in my area and then mail the footage to the moviemaker. There alot of fun and it keeps my name out there.
B: 11 years after LOST FAITH, you returned to directing with "The Dessert." What brought this about?
JW: Actually, it's called TIME FOR DESSERT. That was done on a whim. We were shooting THE PART for TWISTED ILLUSIONS TWO when I wanted to do another short, one which I had written back in 1985 called I WANT YOUR PENIS about this sexy woman who was a serial killer who would pick up men and take them back to her place to have sex. When the last man comes in... he closes the door and turns around and all these penis are hanging on the wall. The woman turns around [and is revealed to be] a hideous monster. She screams at the man "I WANT YOUR PENIS," and attacks him...ripping his unit off in a bloody mess.
I revised the script to portray an alien disguised on Earth to look like a woman who is on the prowl for men. Same concept, picking up men, but you never see what happens to the men until the last guy when a towel falls off a mirror and shows the woman for what she really is - an alien monster. It was done in the style of an old 1950's monster movie and that's how it came off. I think it's pretty entertaining and alot of people are so caught up in the sex part that they don't expect the ending alien monster thing. This can be seen in BEFORE I DIE, which is in a compilation video from Pendulum Pictures called MENTAL MANIACS, which can also be found on Amazon.com.
B: After 20 years, why go back and do a follow-up to TWISTED ILLUSIONS?
JW: I just wanted to do another short and I thought Tim might want to throw it on as a bonus on TWISTED ILLUSIONS 2. We both agreed that we wanted TWISTED ILLUSIONS 2 to be like the original some 20 years earlier. Tim and I had always talked about doing TWISTED ILLUSIONS 2 since the day we finished TWISTED ILLUSIONS. Finally, the day just came that we both agreed to just do it.
First time I beat Tim at something. My segment, THE PART, was done long before Tim's DEXTER DEADBEAT and John Bowker's BETRAYEL. I have to say that because I'm usually last at getting something done.
I think to it was a completion for Tim and I. If you look at TWISTED ILLUSIONS, at the end of the credits it says "COMING SOON." TWISTED ILLUSIONS 2, it was just something we always wanted to do, it just took us 20 years to do it.
B: You have a new filmmaking partner, tell us about M. Catherine Holseybrook?
JW: I was working on FALL OF AN ACTOR when I met a young lady by the name of Cathy Holseybrook... Mary Catherine Holseybrook if you want to be technical. She was on the set with her friend Walter (BRAINROBBERS FROM OUTER SPACE) Maseda when Garland (directing) says "Have Cathy be your girlfriend, she can kiss you goodbye as you go into the restaraunt."
"Okay with me if it's ok with you." I told [Cathy].
"Sure," she said.
After that kiss, our very first ever, I think we both knew something was there. We finished our scenes together and I returned back to Fort Pierce. After returning to working on FALL OF AN ACTOR, Cathy and I met up again for more scenes and time together. Nothing serious, just friends that shared the same interests like STAR TREK: VOYAGER and, of course, acting in movies. Cathy really hadn't been doing movies but she always had an interest to be an actress.
FALL OF AN ACTOR eventualy lead into THE PART and TIME FOR DESSERT, which Cathy had roles in as well as myself. TIME FOR DESSERT was Cathy's coming out movie, so to speak, she was the star although it was a 20 minute short. Originally, I was going to play the "Horney Harvey" part but I wanted to concentrate more on the directing, so the part went to Gus Perez.
Cathy is great to work with, she is a good actress and can play a convincing part. We also make a great team, whether it's making box art or putting together a production, it's something we both want.
B: How does working with your spouse differ from other acting/directing jobs?
JW: Acting with her is great, and so is directing her. She knows what I want when I'm shooting stuff. She knows I love her and she loves me, so we get right over that jealous thing right away. I have done scenes with other actresses, and she has done scenes with other actors. One thing about a husband and wife team is that it's two cast memebers that will usually always be on time to a set, even if it is your own set.
I think I'm more comfortable around Cathy because she is my wife now. With some actresses you have to worry about where they going to take something [you say] the wrong way.
I needed a big busted girl for THE PART and I didn't exactly know how to say it, so I told Cathy, and she said "I need someone with big boobs that isn't afraid to get into this tight shirt and do a little jiggle for us." It was for the movie, but I wasn't sure about what all these actresses would think.
Actually, when I'm directing, it's not really any different for Cathy under me then any other actress because I explain up front what is required of the role. I don't think she's to happy about any scenes I might have if I was necking with some actress, like in the old days of RITTER/ WYNKOOP, but I view it a little differenly. If there is a role she can do, or I'd like to see her do, and it involves her with another actor, then so be it, as long as she is comfortable with it. I've always said, "don't compromise the scene because of the content."
TIME FOR DESSERT could have been done with another actress but I wanted it to be Cathy's time to shine - her first work to get out and I thought it was a cool little monster alien story. If the sex parts wern't there it wouldn't have been as interesting. It would be kind of boring if she just walked around and said "I want you," but never showed or implied anything. I knew Gus and I felt comfortable with him doing the scenes with Cathy, and she was too (she had known Gus for years).
The same with THE PART. I don't think it would have been as fun if I didn't have her kissing Gus. It was supposed to be like two teenagers off in the woods making out. I'm not going to cut out the impact of a scene because someone might say something about me or her; if it belongs in the scene then leave it. If it had been another actress I would have had her do the same thing with Gus. Other people I have worked with have got right down to the love scenes and backed out. Then [the director has] to come up with something new on the fly; that sucks.
Also if I'm working on something I don't have to worry about getting back early to see my wife becasue half the time shes with me on the shoot. Whether I'm acting or directing, it becomes a team effort. I think the most important thing is teamwork, both on or off the set. I think, production wise, if it's Cathy and I producing then it's a good working relationship. We both work together to get the project done. She might be helping me with releases or catering or getting girls with big boobs to put small shirts on, but we do it as a team. The acting, if she gets a role I'll be there to support her if I can and she in return for me. I guess I'd really have to say that directing her is like I would direct anyone else except I know what she'll do or is willing to do when another actress I don't know as well might be hesitant or flat out refuse. Acting wise, she knows what I want where as another might not be sure. Either way they both are expected to do their part, whether it's Cathy kissing a guy or some other actress kissing a guy, if that's what's in the script then that's what I want.
B: Did you really name one of your children after James T. Kirk?
JW: Yes!! It's not on the birth certificate ,but Jimmy was named after James Kirk, yes!! He was born the day Jim Kirk died during the opening of STAR TREK GENERATIONS. Jimmy's actual name is James Walter Wynkoop, but I toyed with having James Tiberious Walter Wynkoop put on the birth certificate. I settlled for the thought of it instead. Walter was my Dad's name. It all works out good because my Dad liked Jim Kirk as well.
B: You've mentioned THE BITE, which is your most recent directorial project. Tell us more about that one.
JW: That was alot of fun. That started out as a short for Phil Herman's AFTER MIDNIGHT"a. Phil sent me a three page synopsis about a guy walking down the street with dead bodies all around and he sits down and remembers how he and his wife went on a picnic, they came home, she got bit, and that was the end. From that I turned it into a thirty page script and shot an 80 minute movie.
Phil called me in the middle of me writting and said "I gotta go with someone else's story because I gotta get this out now." I felt like I was being fired, but I kept writing. I told him "Look, I want this to be a cool short. I'm not gonna throw this together in two days." It took about three months of every other weekends to get done. Now there was no more AFTER MIDNIGHT to put it in so I shot more scenes ran it up to 80 minutes and had a feature.
Chris Conklin had helped me shoot the flick and we edited, another three months of every other [weekend] from 7am until around midnight, but we got it done. Marketing? I was going to give it to Ron of Sub Rosa but Chris wanted to try his hand at marketing it on www.thebitemovie.com. We made a website for it and started our own marketing campaign which consisted of an appearence on the MJ morning show here in Tampa, hitting the conventions, and any interviews I could do on THE BITE.
After my radio debut, we got like 7,000 hits almost right away. Lookers but no takers. We sold some but nothing outstanding, I probably sold more at conventions then the website did. Eventually, I enetered it into the Crystal Reel Awards and actually won for best picture against 200 other movies. That was cool because I never entered anything before.
THE BITE was a good example of teamwork; Cathy and I financed the whole thing. Not that it was a huge budget, but the money we did need came from us, not any financers. Cathy had the role of producer...as well as the lead character's wife who is bitten by the vampire and turns into one. Again, whether she did the scene or not, it was written for a pretty racy attack scene and I wanted that scene no matter who it was. Same with my scenes, they just flow out of me as I write, I write what just comes natural. Like I said, my fingers get ahead of me and before I know it I've written this scene that might be objectionable.
THE BITE, to me, was almost a sequel to LOST FAITH, but in a alternate universe. It had the FAITH element and the Martial Arts. It had that "Mad Max" flavor, the hero element, plus the monster avenue that I enjoy. It was also a great accomplishment because it was the biggest undertaking I had ever done since "LOST FAITH". I have Phil to thank for it, if he never sent me those three pages I would have never made THE BITE.
A good example of your last question is answered here. I was producing as well as Cathy was and it worked out great. We made a good team producing the movie. Again, directing her was just like anyone else, except being my wife she knew how important it was to that [the movie] was done right. THE BITE mostly proved to me that I could still direct, produce, and star in a movie as well as accomplish the task.
B: FALL OF AN ACTOR is a project you've been working on for years. How autobiographical is this?
JW: It's not. The whole story is based about me, except that in the story I'm wealthy and am getting all kinds of parts in all kinds of movies. Then another actor tries to take my place as I fall from glory. It's a downward spiral from there, but depending how I do it I think it will be pretty entertaining.
Alot of things in it are right from my life. You'll hear me talk about CREEP, Tim Ritter, and Ron Bonk. You'll see copies of CREEP, WICKED GAMES, LOST FAITH, etc...
The movie is done; it's sitting on my shelf. It's just a matter of finishing up ALWAYS MIDNIGHT and then I might get busy on that. There's two ways it can be put together, like a movie or like "E The True Hollywood Story," and this is the way I'm heading. It will be fun to watch.
B: What's can we expect from Joel Wynkoop in the future?
JW: FALL OF AN ACTOR, WYNKOOP TALES, ASPIRING PSYCHOPATH, ALWAYS MIDNIGHT, and maybe LOST FAITH 2. A team up with Tim Ritter is hopefully in the cards, that would be the greatest. Also the animated series ROCK SCISSORS PAPER.
B: Any advice for the novice trying to enter the realm of no-budget cinema?
JW: Don't let anyone say to you "You can't do that." That's what everybody said to me when I was trying to shoot TWISTED ILLUSIONS and here I am 20 some years later with over 30 some movies which everybody said "You can't do that." When those same type people tell me that today I say, "I know, I've done it over 30 times." Do not let anyone say "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!"

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